to hell with the Inclosure Acts!…or: the lesson of the Commons
December 19, 2010
Imagine for a moment that the Bolsheviks had chosen, on principle, not to do away with the worker’s councils (i.e., the soviets), not insisting, as they nevertheless did, upon a “temporary”, top-down, controlling vanguard—i.e., taking their cue from Marx (his essential error?). Indeed—and in contradistinction to that failed attempt, and the ruin that ensued—Bakunin’s view is that one can never undo “old” top-down control (Tsarism, the kulaks, feudalism in Russia, etc.) by instilling “new” top-down control, however transient.
That is, the essential fact of our lives is that we must work, and, therefore, it makes nothing but good sense to establish the democracy we insist we want—i.e., a participatory democracy—at the syndicalist level, that being a decentralized matrix of worker’s collectives, or unions.
There, we establish the distinct possibility of 1) ongoing dialogue, 2) effective arbitration, 3) mutuality, and 4) participation of the kind sorely lacking in the highly centralized, top-down, hierarchical arborescent-model (i.e., Ponzi?) construct under which we suffer.
Hayek (Mises, and, more recently, Summers, et al.) argue to the necessity of control via “the unseen hand of the market”—i.e., the centralized market. If, however, we prescind from the idea of the Federal-as-God-as-needed-control mantra and consider the reality of “smaller,” decentralized (i.e., the rhizome model of, e.g., Deleuze and Guattari) local collectivization with localized, non-hierarchical communication displacing the virtually religious idée fixe of control, then a space of negotiation exists when one was lacking a moment ago.
we are many, they are few…
December 2, 2010
Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number -
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you -
Ye are many – they are few.
[Shelley; an homage to anarchy]
the killing fields of St. Peter…
“The Peterloo Massacre has been called one of the defining moments of its age. Many of those present at the massacre, including local masters, employers and owners, were horrified by the carnage. One of the casualties, Oldham cloth-worker and ex-soldier John Lees, who died from his wounds on 7 September, had been present at the Battle of Waterloo. Shortly before his death he said to a friend that he had never been in such danger as at Peterloo: ‘At Waterloo there was man to man but there it was downright murder.’” 1
“On 16th August 1819 in St Peter’s Fields, Manchester, armed cavalry charged a peaceful crowd of around 60,000 people gathered to listen to anti-poverty and pro-democracy speakers. It is estimated that 18 were killed, and over 700 seriously injured.”2, 3
To honor and preserve the memory of both the incident as well as the martyrs to participatory democracy Percy Bysshe Shelley (4 August 1792 – 8 July 1822) wrote the following ninety-one stanzas to commend and magnify a non-centralized, non-hierarchical political economy, i.e., anarchy:4
As I lay asleep in Italy
There came a voice from over the Sea,
And with great power it forth led me
To walk in the visions of Poesy.
I met Murder on the way -
He had a mask like Castlereagh -
Very smooth he looked, yet grim;
Seven blood-hounds followed him:
All were fat; and well they might
Be in admirable plight,
For one by one, and two by two,
He tossed the human hearts to chew
Which from his wide cloak he drew.
Next came Fraud, and he had on,
Like Eldon, an ermined gown;
His big tears, for he wept well,
Turned to mill-stones as they fell.
And the little children, who
Round his feet played to and fro,
Thinking every tear a gem,
Had their brains knocked out by them.
American Gandhi…
November 26, 2010
“Before reading [his autobiography], I knew and greatly admired Dave Dellinger. Or so I thought. After reading his remarkable story, my admiration changed to something more like awe. There can be few people in the world who have crafted their lives into something truly inspiring. This autobiography introduces us to one of them.” — Noam Chomsky, from the dustjacket of From Yale to Jail
Dorothy Day on being asked about how best to address militancy and the violent:
“you don’t argue…I mean, you can’t argue with somebody who’s very…I saw Dave Dellinger get a broken jaw from one of the militants who came up and gave him a terrific crack on the side of the face…and, with the blood coming out of his mouth, and spitting blood, why, he went right on talking…he lost a few teeth…he went right on talking–perfectly calm, perfectly self-possessed: Dave Dellinger is really a non-violent person. And, the man went up and apologized to him afterward—he was completely taken aback…” [from Marquette University lecture, 1969].
Q: “What are your future plans?” A: “Resistance.”
June 21, 2010
(“I feel that there are many people who are in despair over me, and are extraordinarily scandalized by what I have done. I feel, at times, in great despair over…Christians.”)
DB: Oh…I think we didn’t realize that the waters were very apt to turn to blood—that might happen…it has happened…If fires were reborn…might actually cause—might actually cost the death of very good men…These waters of time have become dipped in a great deal of blood since then. From innocent Vietnamese blood to innocent American blood.
[scene: narrator voiceover to DB photo stream]
VO: Father Daniel Berrigan is a poet and a Jesuit priest who defied the law as a means of dramatizing his opposition to the war in Vietnam. On May 17, 1968, Father Berrigan, his brother Philip—also a priest—and seven other men and women entered the Selective Service office at Catonsville, Maryland and burned several hundred draft files with homemade napalm. The Catonsville Nine were later tried and convicted of destroying government property. On April 9, 1970, the date he was due to begin serving his prison sentence of three-and-a-half years, Father Berrigan went underground. He successfully evaded capture for four months. On August 11th, Father Berrigan was finally arrested by agents of the FBI on Block Island, Rhode Island.
(“For all practical purposes, it was France that revitalized the Catholic Church in this [20th] century, beginning with people like Maurice Blondel and Charles Péguy, on to Emmanuel Mounier, one of Peter Maurin’s favorite philosophers, and to Henri de Lubac. Mounier’s writings and the discussions and gatherings of those involved in the personalist movement in France were a model for the Catholic Worker movement.”)
[reprint of the article "Roots of the Catholic Worker Movement: Emmanuel Mounier, Personalism, and the Catholic Worker movement." Mark and Louise Zwick]
Emmanuel Mounier (1905-1950) articulated the ideas of personalism, of human persons whose responsibility it is to take an active role in history, even while the ultimate goal is beyond the temporal and beyond human history. Mounier articulated it as “a philosophy of engagement…inseparable from a philosophy of the absolute or of the transcendence of the human model.” (Mounier, Be Not Afraid, Harper and Brothers, p. 135).
Many people have found in the personalism of the Catholic Worker movement a new vision and a way of life, a way to simply live the Gospels and their Catholic faith, and a model for a communitarian and personalist non-violent revolution to change the social order. Sometimes discouraged about the possibility of making any changes in our world, they have found in Peter Maurin and Dorothy Day people who are examples, witnesses to a vital, lively faith and holiness which translates into hospitality for the poorest of the poor and all the works of mercy, into work for peace, not waiting for the government or other agency structures to ponderously begin to do something, but who simply try to act as Jesus did, or as He asks His followers to do in the Sermon on the Mount and Matthew 25:31 ff.
continued…
“love” is NOT “like”: sublimating desire—versus the Thanatos instinct…
February 10, 2010
“If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.
“And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.
“If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.
“Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.
“It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
“Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing.
“For we know partially and we prophesy partially, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.
“When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things.
“At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known.
“So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”
I Corinthians 13: 1-13
the fatal error in reifying desire: a “faith” in being chosen…
As activist Dorothy Day lived it—her ”message,” then—loving has nothing to do with liking…
What is gained, then? That is, what part of our make-up is gratefully, joyously transcended in loving as Paul reveals it?
Desire.
We inflect from the dis-ease of desire when we love—when we love truly.
What is taken, too, as desire’s adjunct, is fear, i.e., we live without fear if we love. Desire is of the Self. Like an infinite regression seen in mirroring desire replicates itself solely for its own sake. That is, the desiring Self seeks solely, endlessly, to be desired—i.e., to be chosen. No desire (it being literally a longing for what is not there) and fear—i.e., the impossible fear of not being chosen as a personal belief in death (that is, punishment)—is burned off as the sun burns mist.
“There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear because fear has to do with punishment, and so one who fears is not yet perfect in love.”
I John 4:18
continued…
Dives and Lazarus in New York City…
January 25, 2010
(“With the $57 she and four friends put together in 1933, partly from an article she published in America magazine, they printed an eight-page tabloid called The Catholic Worker and handed out 2,500 copies at the May Day Communist rally in Union Square. With only the $5 she had to her name a few months later, she rented a vacant apartment to provide emergency shelter for six homeless women after hearing that one of their friends had thrown herself in front of a subway. These two acts launched one of the most elegantly simple revolutions in history.”)
“There was a rich man who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day. And, lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man’s table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores.
When the poor man died he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, and from the netherworld, where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
And he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.’
Abraham replied, ‘My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here, whereas you are tormented.
Moreover, between us and you a great chasm is established to prevent anyone from crossing who might wish to go from our side to yours or from your side to ours.’
He said, ‘Then I beg you, father, send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they too come to this place of torment.’
But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’
He said, ‘Oh no, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
Then Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’”
Luke 16: 19-31
“one of the most elegantly simple revolutions in history…”
["Dorothy Day," 2 July 2003, The Nation, by Chris Barrett and Wayne Barrett]
continued…
“Do not be conquered by evil but conquer evil with good…”
January 9, 2010
One Abbot Howard Hoffman referred to Dorothy Day (with Dan Berrigan, upper right) as, “the first Hippie.” High praise indeed. Day’s Weltanschauung included as its primary consideration aid to the poor. She remarked: “If anybody comes to you hungry…you don’t say to him, ‘go be thou filled,’…‘go be warm’…You go ahead and see to it that he does get what he needs. You can’t pass the buck that way.”
Dorothy Day: journalist, Catholic activist, non-violent anarchist, Wobblie, succor to the poor of inner cities across America. Day willingly lived the fertile ground of voluntary poverty as a site of Love—the love she held for her God as well as the love (caritas) she expressed for her fellow man.
For Day, if you would that a revolution occur in the world—a revolution of equity of every kind, brotherhood, and freedom for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness—then start that revolution in you own heart and soul. Be the hero of your own life, and you will be a hero—a source of love in the world—to others.
To effect that freedom and change, Day would not be seduced by the world. In this way, she had freed herself up to effect the change she wanted to see occur—for both herself and the collective drawn to her.
[Interview on "Christopher Closeup," 10 October 1971]
B: Hello–I’m Edward Blake. Welcome to “Christopher Closeup.”
G: I’m Jeanne Glynne.
A: I’m Richard Armstrong.
B: Since the beginnings of human history man has been a maker of war and a dreamer of peace. While he’s devoted his energy, talents, and resources to the development and use of weapons of self destruction, he’s done comparatively little to discover effective methods for the making—and keeping—of peace.
G: Our guest has been actively working for peace for nearly half a century. She’s the co-founder of the Catholic Worker movement, the author of several books, among them: Loaves and Fishes, The Long Loneliness, and Meditation. And, she’s the widely-traveled lecturer, Miss Dorothy Day. With her is a former editor of the Catholic Worker newspaper, and present executive-secretary of the Catholic Peace Fellowship, Mr. Tom Cornell.
A: Miss Day, how and when did the Catholic Worker movement begin?
D: I think there was a war going on at the time it began—between China and Japan, back in 1933. And, it began through the efforts of Peter Maurin, a French peasant—a former teacher in the Christian Brothers’ schools in Paris—who felt a call to come to America and be part of the…really, built up a…lay apostolate. And, he came to me because he read articles that I had written about the social order, and suggested we start the Catholic Worker newspaper.
A: What was your first reaction when he came with this idea?
D: My first reaction was that I’d like nothing better than to…I think it’s the ambition of everybody who’s been in journalism to have their own paper. To start a paper…but, I was very dubious about the funds…But, he said, in the Catholic Church funds were never necessary—you just needed to start. And, we found it worked that way.
A: You began with the Catholic Worker—the newspaper—but this got you into all sorts of other involvements with people.
D: We began talking about what makes for peace…and, that is, the teaching in the gospels…the Beatitudes, the Sermon on the Mount, and so on. And, to take them literally really meant that you began practicing the works of peace rather than the works of war. The works of war are the exact opposite of the works of peace: feeding the hungry…when we’re destroying crops…and sheltering the homeless…when we’re destroying villages, and wiping out cities. It’s all the way through, right down the line—the opposite. And, Christ proposed, certainly, that the work of the Christian was the works of mercy. And, he laid it down as commands—not counsels—in the twenty-fifth chapter of St. Matthew.
A: There’s no better way to get into trouble than to try to make peace, is there?
D: I always say, if you start praying, and saying, “Lord, what will you have me do,” prayers are answered and you find yourself doing a lot more than you ever thought you were going to do. Getting yourself involved…
G: Miss Day, as a student, the first thing I heard about the Catholic Worker was the soup kitchen. Could you tell us a little about that—how you began these corporal works of mercy—which they really were?
D: Well, it’s the…if your brother is hungry, you feed him. You don’t meet him at the door and say, “Go be thou filled,” or, “wait for a few weeks and you’ll get a welfare check.” You sit him down and feed him. And, so that’s how the soup kitchen started…As a matter of fact, we didn’t start it at all. We were feeding a house full of people, but the soup line started because one of the men—who had charge of the clothes room—didn’t have any more clothes to give out, so he began saying, “just come in and have a cup of coffee.”
And, so, pretty soon a line formed at the door. Peter Maurin was always in favor of soup, being a good French peasant. So, it became a soup line. And, we still have the soup line—a couple of hundred people a day coming in…Then, too, our Lord left Himself to us as food—bread and wine, and…I would say that sitting down and breaking bread with people…that the disciples at Emmaus knew Him in the breaking of bread…and, so, it’s far easier to see Christ in your brother when you’re sitting down and sharing soup with him. You don’t any longer see the destitute, or the drunk, or the disorderly, or the…the unworthy poor…
G: I think in one of your books you said that in those early days you were surrounded by the ”offscouring” of the earth—is that what…
D: No, I said we, ourselves, are the offscouring.
G: That’s right…Tom, how did you find your way to the Catholic Worker?
C: Well, I was a student in the early fifties at Fairfield University, in Connecticut. We were the “silent generation,” you know—there wasn’t anything going on. And, I’d heard the gospel preached, and, I believed…and, it seemed to me—perhaps this was adolescent arrogance, but, I think, not entirely—it seemed to me that I’d not really seen the gospel lived. And, by accident—at least it seemed that way—I came across the book, The Long Loneliness, by Dorothy…her most autobiographical book…And, I read it, and…here it was: here was the gospel being lived.
So, I lost no time coming down to the Bowery to go to a Friday-night meeting, and to meet Dorothy. And, I sought out a family in Washington, Connecticut—the McCarthys—who had been involved in the Worker in the late thirties. And, we talked, we argued…A lot of these ideas seemed very bizarre to me because I came from a very conservative background—I was very skeptical of anything that seemed Leftist…The union movement, even, seemed to me somewhat suspect. But, in a very short time it was all overturned. And, my greatest desire was to leave school to go down to the Bowery…and, it was a work of restraint on my part just to stay in school. I stayed in school for three more years, got my bachelors degree, went down to the Worker, and I’ve been involved one way or the other ever since.
A: Miss Day, we’ve…since the Catholic Worker began, besides the Chinese-Japanese War, we’ve had the Spanish Civil War, the Italian-Ethiopian War, World War II, Korea, plus violence at home at Watts, Newark, Attica—do you think mankind will ever learn non-violence?
D: And, now the Indo-China War…
A: The Indo-China War…
D: …the longest war in our history. I think that just as we’re living in a nuclear age…something…we have grown so tremendously in scientific knowledge…it doesn’t seem too much to say that men can begin to awaken to the fact that they haven’t grown enough spiritually…and haven’t recognized their spiritual capacities…
And, I think that today there is, certainly, the beginnings of a movement of non-violence all over the world. Of course, the teaching of Gandhi, in India, and Vinoba Bhave today—his successor…and then the work here in our country of the Martin Luther King movement, and the César Chávez movement—on the West coast—they wouldn’t like to have it labeled in that way…But, I think that their names are so familiar to people—both, in the union field, which interests me very much because I think that it’s beginning to work from the bottom up, instead of from the top down…
Everybody looks to the State, and looks to the State for funding, and looks to the State to keep our schools going—always turning to the State…and the State isn’t supposed to be functioning in this way. Martin Buber says the State should be ”a community of communities.” And, certainly, the popes have said that the State should never do what smaller bodies can do…and here, when unions, and credit unions, and cooperatives are the basis of man’s mutual aid and working together. It’s an entirely different political point of view…and, it makes for peace.
G: Miss Day, you sound very hopeful. Besides the…César Chávez —and the others you’ve mentioned—are there places right now in this country where peace is actively being taught?
D: There is a tremendous growth in the Peace Movement, certainly, in this country…And, it makes me very happy to think of it being taught in High Schools. And, I think the Christopher program is reaching out—by their publications especially—to reach people where they can see, and read, and think…And, I think that the Catholic Peace Fellowship—with groups all over the country—and the constant…emphasis on the need for voluntary poverty, and the works of mercy as a basis of the Peace Movement, and…learning to put off the old man and put on the new—put off the old man and put on Christ, as St. Paul said.
These things are taking hold, you might say, all through the young. I mean, the desire is there to grow spiritually…and to see how much they can do without—to see how much they can go ahead to change the system by…by each one playing his part in this way: a great sense of personal responsibility, and the importance of it. It’s the…what Mounier over in France called the personalist and communitarian revolution—and Peter Maurin talked to us about that.
A: The…It certainly is a revolution, because now we’re not talking about social structures…I think we’re talking about ourselves…how much are we willing to put ourselves into a living-out of the gospel…and, that’s a lot harder than simply getting a job, or designing some kind of utopia, because it begins here and now…
I wonder, Tom, could you mention some other people who have been influenced by the Catholic Worker movement? The idea…?
C: Well, there…there are so many…I think it was Ed Wilcock who said that there were very few people who take all of the Catholic Worker philosophy as their own, but there are even fewer who haven’t been touched in some way. There are organizations, like the Catholic Peace Fellowship—which is a direct offshoot of the Worker…There’s the Association of Catholic Trade Unionists…There’s the American Pax Association doing work in peace education and peace action…There are others…We don’t want to claim a kind of parental responsibility…or credit for a lot of the things that go on…but, I can see Catholic Worker ideas, and attitudes, and life-styles, if you will, going through so much of everything that’s any good in this country. And, not just in the Catholic sector of the community, but throughout.
A: …because I think it goes back to the gospel…
C: It’s fundamental radicalism—and that’s the real kind of radicalism: getting right down to the real roots.
A: Miss Day, we have about thirty seconds left: give us thirty seconds on turning the other cheek.
D: Well, not in a provocative fashion…
A: But, the…the idea, I mean, of non-violence as a …as a positive way of achieving one’s goals…
D: Well, the last words of Jesus were to…the last command was to lay down our lives for our brother—not to take life. And, that would mean, certainly, taking what comes, without…looking for our help in weapons or the arms’ race…
A: Thank you very much Dorothy Day and Tom Cornell. And, now here is Edward Blake.
B: “Irenology” is a big word—but it’s one that, hopefully, we’ll hear more often. It’s the name increasingly being given to the serious, systematic study of peace. In the United States alone, there are between eighty and a hundred courses on peace already being taught. To find out more about peace studies, and how it can be brought to your campuses, write for your copy of this special Christopher booklet called “Irenology.” Send your name, address, and zip code to the Christophers, New York, New York, 10017. We’ll be happy to send it to you free of charge.
A: We’re speaking with Dorothy Day, founder of the Catholic Worker movement, and Tom Cornell, of the Catholic Peace Fellowship.
G: May I ask—non-violence and peace-related activities can arouse such terrible resentment and hostility. Why is that?
D: Well, I don’t know…I mean, why…maybe the way it’s presented?
G: Well, may I be personal and say that, for instance, in my living room not long ago there was a young man who wanted to…he wanted to really put into practice the voluntary poverty idea with his wife and three children. And, I was amazed that, among the neighbors who knew him…suddenly, there was a terrible amount of hostility in the room. And, I’ve seen this happen in many incidents, and I wonder if…
D: Oh, well, I think that in a case like that…probably in the case of non-violence, it’s almost a holier-than-thou attitude, you know…
G: I see…
D: But, people feel resentment that…anybody should presume to think that they are capable of bucking the system. After all, in the system, people have to dress and house themselves, and…even their address is important, and so on…So, when you’re …when you’re thinking in those terms, why, you’re setting yourselves up as being…well…following another…another star. And, in a way there is an arrogance about it—almost might better not say a word about it…and, just sort of get into it, you know…Because, you soon realize how much you fail in it…and how…how you are compromising over and over again, and that you’re…You do the best you can—and some can take more than others…some can go further than others…But, it almost seems like a judgment of others, you’d say…So, I suppose that’s one of the reasons…there’s a very good reason for it: I think that anybody who arouses hostility really ought to settle down and try to figure out why…you know…
G: That’s not really being a peace maker, is it?
D: The word “conciliate” is sort of a bad word…but…”to reconcile” isn’t a bad word—fellowship of reconciliation, you know…But…the Bishops in Spain recently apologized that during the Spanish Civil War…they apologized to their people, because during the Spanish Civil War they had not acted as agents of reconciliation—between brothers who were warring together…So, I say…you have to conciliate…you have to go ahead and be extremely humble about how little you can do, too—and make up your mind to it.
C: I think another cause of the hostility is people feel that the underpinnings of their security are being attacked, and…if you presume to try to live the non-violent way you live in a condition of risk. That’s part of the…that’s the name of the game.
D: But, in a way, also, everybody holds each other up, and they think, well, here you are married with three children: what right have you got to go ahead and…who is going to support you…how much are you going to depend on others, and family, or…throw yourself on the free-lunch program of the schools, or the …or Medicaid, and then have everybody have to pay increased taxes, and so on…
I don’t know…there’s a…voluntary poverty is an extremely radical…radical weapon, and…after all, we live off of people…even if we do wear the clothes that come in, and have no salaries, and all that—who’s supporting us?: people who are in the system. So, what right have we got to go ahead and…I mean it’s…I think you have to be extremely careful the way you try to approach these…these…they can be suggested, they can be tentatively worked out…but, it’s a little-by-little affair.
A: Yes, it seems the…if we can, any of us, avoid this kind of strident denunciation…
D: Yes…
A: …which is to say, “look at me…I’m …I’m the one who’s doing the right thing…”
D: …Or criticisms…Peter Maurin—our holy founder—he always said, “be what you want the other fellow to be.” And, he said…to be announcers, rather than denouncers…and things like that, you know—things that stuck in your head. But, whenever you are starting getting very critical of somebody you could…you could go ahead and try to be what you wanted him to be and forget about it…
G: This element of risk that you were telling me about before the program…when we were talking with Tom…you know…when you would like to lead a non-violent life, and, say you have little children who live in the city…and…you want to teach them, this non-violence…right away, if you’re in a neighborhood where children are mugged, or carry guns—or, even in the countrysides, where, maybe the roads might be safe for the children—you’re running a certain amount of risk. Would you comment further on that?
D: I think fear is one of the most dangerous things…and…to get over fears, and teach your children not to have fears—I think that’s the kind of thing that overcomes…but, it’s very hard, naturally…And then, also, to quit criticizing…always being so…well…you end up by having a chip on your shoulder…and, you start something, or you get clobbered, why, partly it’s your own fault. Children do have a hard time, but…you do what you can—go as far as you can—and, after all, they all have guardian angels, and I think that we need to stress that. And, also have some faith that there is this protection and overall care…Our Father hath care of us, and so on…
I mean it’s…you have to overcome fear, because fear is what makes the police trigger happy…there’s a terrible fear of the whites for the Blacks, and the Blacks—rightly…I’ve got…when you think of Attica, and when you think of the men being held as hostages, with knives at their throats…and then, all the atrocity stories were proven to be untrue—but the threat was still there, of course…But, you can’t help but think how the Blacks have had this threat hung over them…about what would happen to them…and there’s been lynching parties in our history…And, they also were full of rhetoric…and, the threat…But, you look at the faces of these men, when they were talking with the man in charge who was the…final authority over all the guards, and…you see their…their…what they were demanding—they were demanding that they be treated as human beings…that their religious attitudes should be respected…
Our priests go in pomp and circumstance, our Holy Father goes in pomp and circumstance, they worship the Lord in holy attire…and, if the Moslems can’t go ahead and dress as they see fit, and fast from pork, and have their religious rights respected—instead of being made fun of…You might better make fun of the Masons and the Elks, and all the other different organizations amongst the whites…But, I mean these…these attitudes of contempt…I think, essentially, to have respect for everyone, to expect from them…a response—not to greet them with fear, and not to greet them with this hatred, suspicion, anger, contempt, and lack of brotherly love: that’s a quotation from the Imitations…But, it’s…I think it has to be from childhood on…And, to give in a lot…
A: Tom, tell us something about the Catholic Peace Fellowship.
C: Well, as I said, it’s a direct offshoot of the Catholic Worker movement, but it’s part of a larger group called the Fellowship of Reconciliation, which dates back to World War I—first founded in England, and then in this country…
A: It was founded by a Presbyterian minister…?
C: No…No, with…originally with Anglican and Lutheran pastors who wanted to keep a line of communication open between the two believing communities at war in Germany and England…and then, later, here. We have, I think, fourteen religious affiliates to the F.O.R., including Jewish, Orthodox, and humanist groups. We started up the Catholic Peace Fellowship in 1964, with the help of Thomas Merton, and Father Daniel and Father Philip Berrigan…and, we’ve been involved in peace education and action, getting into schools—high schools and colleges—circulating speakers from all over the world…and, literature of our own design—and your own literature, which we find very helpful…and less expensive than we could produce ourselves—sponsoring demonstrations: every kind of activity, from very conventional kinds of activity to very unconventional activities…which sometimes land us in jail, but more often, in classrooms.
A: Well, we tend to try to work within the establishment—and the Christophers trying to persuade people who have power to use it more responsibly—I would think of your…both of you…as working somewhat outside of it…Do you find any irreconcilable differences there?
C: Not at all…in fact, when people say we work outside the system…I can understand and appreciate that, but I don’t really feel any investment in that term. If I were to describe the way I would like to operate, it would be with one foot in and one foot out…so that we don’t rely upon any authorization from the hierarchy, or from any bishop, or from anybody at all. You don’t have to have a patent to practice the works of mercy…you don’t have to have a patent to proclaim the gospel of peace. We…
A: You need a lot of courage, that’s all…
C: Well, we find that we have more and more call upon our services from various dioceses. Four or five years ago…seven years ago, when we started, all the draft counseling was done in our office—any draft counseling that was done in the Catholic field, I don’t know of any of it that was done outside of the Catholic Worker and the Catholic Peace Fellowship. Now, we have priests trained by the Catholic Peace Fellowship, in many dioceses…and they’re doing the job, and that’s where the job should have been in the first place. But, if…if, sometimes, we can give a nudge, we’ll give the nudge. If we can work with bishops and commissions and priests and parishes—fine, all the better.
A: Miss Day, we have about a minute left. What do you think is the most important thing our audience can do to make non-violence a way of life?
D: Well, always begin with themselves, I think…and, it’s a question of thought, word, and deed. Not to be thinking resentful, or violent, or antagonistic thoughts. I mean, if all men are brothers—we can’t help but make judgments, of course—but, in a way, Christ said not to judge…so that we do violence in thinking, in speech, and so on. It begins there…and I think that, wherever we are—whether in the home, or…children respecting one another, respecting others…I don’t know…you have to begin right at the very bottom level…And, it’s not being one foot in the system, or one foot out of it—or being out of the system at all: I think we’re in the system, all of us…and…we have to remember that we are all members, one of another.
A: Than you so much, Dorothy Day and Tom Cornell. Now, here’s Edward Blake.
B: I’d like to remind you of that big word again: “irenology.” It means “peace studies.” One of the reasons that achieving peace has been such a struggle is that we know so little about it. Scholarly research on violence and aggression as it relates to peace and war is being done, but much more remains to be done. Find out how you can play your part in promoting peace. Send for your free copy of “Irenology.” Write your name, address, and zip code on a post card to: the Christophers, New York, New York, 10017. We’ll be happy to send it to you free of charge.
A: In the epistle of St. James, the apostle says that the fruit of justice is sown in peace by those who make peace. The Chinese character for peace is actually made up of three characters: one is ping, which means “equality,” where no one dominates over another. The second character in peace shows a woman under a roof, because where there is domestic tranquility there is peace. And the third part of the Chinese character for peace shows a mouth and grain. Where there is love, there will be peace. Work for peace and justice. Thank you, and God bless you.
[Transcript of an interview with Hubert Jessup in 1974]
J: This, for some people, is home. It’s a bed where a man spent the night. In our city—and cities around the country—there are thousands of men who, every night, have no home. Or, have no place to go to get out of the cold or have something to eat.
It is this condition, which, in 1932, led people in New York city to found the Catholic Worker movement. Since that time, the Catholic Worker has been very influential in cities around the country in establishing Houses of Hospitality to house and feed homeless men. In doing this they were fulfilling the gospel commandment: to feed the hungry, to house the homeless, to clothe the naked.
One of the founders of the Catholic Worker movement is Dorothy Day. She, in her own right, has been become quite famous in the past few years and, when she was in Boston recently we spoke with her about some of the ideas behind the Catholic Worker movement.
Since 1933, the Catholic Worker movement has published its ideas in its newspaper, called the Catholic Worker—still available for a penny a copy, its original price. In this journal, over the forty years that it’s been published, the Catholic Worker’s ideas concerning pacifism, non-violent social change, direct action, and works of mercy, Hospitality Houses, agrarian reform—and many of the other ideas from the religious sphere that the Catholic Worker stands for—have been published.
These have been very influential in the formation of the Catholic Left in this country, a part of the Catholic Church which claims and tries to put into direct action the teachings and social concerns of the Catholic religion. Many people are part of that Left—and, particularly, the most famous ones were the Berrigans—and others like them were very influenced by the Catholic Worker. It’s been that influence which has been very important in our culture as a whole.
The Paulist Center recently invited Dorothy Day to come to Boston to receive the Isaac Hecker Award [1974] for her contribution through the Catholic Worker movement. While she was in Boston we had a rare opportunity to speak with her concerning the ideas, and goals, and history of the Catholic Worker, and about her own conversion to Catholicism.
D: Religion always fascinated me, and, at the same time, the radical movement…I read Upton Sinclair, who has been called the Dickens of America…
J: Yes…
D: And, I read a book called, The Jungle—about the poverty in Chicago…and in the stockyards. And that started me off—I began to be fascinated by the slums, and about the struggle of workers for…the kind of society. So, when I met Peter—he was sent to me by The Commonweal, because they said he and I had the same kind of ideas. So, he suggested this program of action, which included a paper, first of all—and, coming from a journalist family that was easy enough for me. And, then the setting up of Houses of Hospitality as direct action. And, part of my background was the IWW background—where they always had flop houses…
J: Yes…
D:…a pot of soup on the stove, and…
J: Were you a member of the IWW?
D: I was a card-carrying member of the IWW—yes.
J: Were you really?
D: Yes, I was.
J: I didn’t know that…
D: When I worked for the Communists they didn’t have card-carrying members. But the IWW did—they had the red card.
J: Yes…
D: And, another thing that attracted me about the IWW was…it had an essentially religious theme. Their motto was, “an injury to one is an injury to all.” And, that’s the saying again, of St. Paul, that we are all members of the One Body. And, we’re members, one of another. And, when the health of one member suffers the health of the whole body is undermined.
J: Was there a problem for you coming from being a member of the IWW, and joining the Catholic Church? Was there a contradiction there?
D: Well, I felt it was a great struggle, yes, because, after all, religion was the opium of the people…
J: Yes…
D: …the whole radical movement…
J: Right…
D: …and, I had to take that risk of…but I soon found I didn’t have to. After all, I continued to express myself as I always had—in religious terms…My old Communist friends used to say, “Dorothy would never be a good Communist—she’s too religious.” Fred Ellis, who was the cartoonist for the Daily Worker—and, a very fine artist—made that remark. But, it was a struggle…but I just felt absolutely…the necessity—and, I think it was…just a steady growth in religious thinking.
J: Yes. Were there any particular books, or ideas, or people who were influential in your desire and decision to become a Catholic?
D: No, I can’t…St. Augustine…
J: Yes…
D: That had an influence on my thinking…But, mostly, things of the past, rather than the present. Religion in the present day didn’t attract me very much…I just felt, however, that…if I chose any religion—I’ve heard this said before—I would choose the Catholic. Because I felt the Church was the church of the poor—regardless of how many wonderful churches and rectories were built when the poor were living in hovels.
[J: Peter Maurin, along with Dorothy Day, founded the Catholic Worker in 1932, as a way of combining their commonly-held anarchist and socialist beliefs with their deep and devout Catholicism. Peter Maurin had a vision of a Christian society: urban Houses of Hospitality to provide direct works of mercy to the homeless and the unemployed, and rural, communal farms to raise food for the hungry, while providing an alternative lifestyle to industrial, capitalist America.]
D: Well, it began by my meeting with this French peasant…who had been a teacher in France—however, he was brought up a peasant on the land. And…he had wandered around the United States, working on railroads, the wheatfields, lumber camps, and steel mills, and so on—even as a janitor of buildings in the city.
J: Yes…
D: …and was devoted to the whole cause of reaching the worker. And, he had a very simple program of what he called, “clarification of thought”…and, which meant getting out a paper—and, being a newspaperwoman myself…why, that attracted me immediately, of course…
J: That was the Catholic Worker…
D: …easiest thing in the world, to sit and write about things…
J: Yes…
D: And, then, suddenly, running Houses of Hospitality to take care of the immediate problems of unemployment—it was during the Depression…
J: This was in 1932…
D: …’32, I met him in ’32, yes…We brought the first issue of the paper out in 1933…and, he being very much…well, a man who was intensely serious…wanted to have it devoted entirely to the program that he suggested—of decentralization…the idea of farming communes on the land, which would be a combination of…well, you might say even, in a way, villages on the land, where, as he said, the workers could become scholars and the scholars could become workers. Which would, in a way, eliminate class war.
J: He wrote little things called “easy essays”…
D: Yes, he wrote these things in a phrase style of writing in order to make his “points,” as he called it. So, every month we would have a series of those in the paper.
[J: An "easy essay" from Peter Maurin: "The world would be better off if people tried to become better. If they stopped trying to become better off. Everybody would be rich if nobody tried to become richer. And nobody would be poor if everybody tried to be poorest. And everybody would be what he ought to be if everybody tried to be what he wants the other fellow to be."]
D: If anybody comes to you hungry, you don’t go and say…you don’t say to him, “go be thou filled”…”go be warm…” You go ahead and see to it that he does get what he needs. You can’t pass the buck that way. You can’t go ahead and say, “go to this agency, or that…” I think so many charities have become referral agencies and everybody gets the run-around…and nothing is accomplished. You’re supposed to immediately reply to the need of that person. It’s the simplest way—that’s the way these…who ever wanted to start a soup line? We certainly didn’t want to. But, in the Depression, they began to come in numbers, and…Actually, I would think we’ve been pushed into every kind of work. We haven’t chosen voluntarily to do it—we get credit where there’s no credit due.
During the seaman’s strike in 1936 and ’37…at that time we were running a soup kitchen. Some of the seamen came over to us, and they had no place to sleep…and they were sleeping around the small union hall, and so we said, well, we have room to…you can take over this floor of this old tenement house—we were given the use of a five-storey tenement rear house. The city didn’t have so many complications then—we just moved in. And, the seamen helped us clean it up—replace window glass, plaster, and so on.
So, we got acquainted with quite a lot of them. And, when the strike was on—it began in May, it lasted a month…and they went back to sea again…they came back in October and went on most of the winter…
J: Yes…
D: So, we rented a storefront over on Tenth Avenue, and, what we did was just to pit a huge coffee pot on the stove, and get tubs of peanut butter, and cottage cheese, and jams…and order bread by the load, and…We had to pay cash, but somehow or other the money always came in. We dealt with a cooperative, so we payed cash. Pretty soon we sacrificed our principles and gave up the cooperative for the time being and just charged everything. So, we ended up with a debt of a few thousand dollars, but we managed to keep going…
J: This was to support the seamen…
D: This was the beginning of this union movement…
J: Yes…
D: I mean, our work in this union…Well, one of the men hanging around the Catholic Worker had come in off the Bowery, and he was jealous. He said, “look at your spending all that money over there on the waterfront. What about all these poor bums on the Bowery,” he said, “of which I am one.” John Griffin, his name was. He was a friend of John Cort—who was very much interested in the labor movement—came to help us, and helped serve the coffee, or helped put out the food over there at the headquarters…and lived there himself.
So, this John Griffin kept harping and nagging…As a matter of fact, he began taking matters into his own hands—he had charge of the clothing room, and if there wasn’t a coat, or a sweater, or a pair of shoes to give out, he’d say, “well, anyway, sit down and have a cup of coffee.” So, pretty soon that coffee grew into a…
J: Yes…
D: …and we ended up by having a line of about a thousand men at our doors in the morning…in the Depression…it was ’37…And so, there we ended up. So, we had a bread line—we’ve had it ever since…but, it was direct action to feed men.
[song: "Our Lord Jesus, after meeting with His friends, washed their feet and said to them, 'Do you know what I, your Lord, have done to you? I have given you example, that so you are to do.'"]
D: The men come in, somebody’s sick, you take him in…find an extra bed…The whole…the whole work is built up so that there are workers and scholars—which is part of Peter Maurin’s program—together. There’s fellows who have lived in the Bowery for years…maybe some broken-down newspapermen, for instance. They become very much a part…in doing a re-write job, and…
J: …and working on the paper…
D: …working on the paper, and helping mail it out—everybody sits down and helps mail it out. Circulation is 85,000…we do the whole thing right there, in mailing it out. We have a stencil…an old…As for machinery, we have about three typewriters around the place…We’ve been coming out now for forty years…And, we have a stencil machine that you hold together with hairpins…and it breaks down two or three times when you’re operating it…
J: But it still comes out…
D: …and, they chop the labels, and they put them in envelopes…you can imagine the work…adding zip code numbers to every stencil, and so on…But everybody becomes a part of it. So, we are a community made up of …people that come in from skid row. And, they live and they die with us—we become a family. Down in Cuba, when I visited there, I was very much interested in the fact that they call each other…the word “compañero” was meant…which means “someone baking bread”—breaking bread together…
J: Yes…
D: The Communist calls it “comrade,” which is somebody sitting in the…in the House of Parliament or something, together, you know…I mean it’s…
J: Yes…
D:…it deals with politics, rather than with bread…It gets down to the simple, elemental, fact of bread—men breaking bread together. A “companion” is one who breaks bread with you. And, it’s a …so, here people live together—they live in a dormitory on the top floor of our building. The two top floors are for men, and the third floor is for women. Second floor is general office, mailing room…and the first floor is the soup line. The basement is also an overflow—we have people sleeping all over the place, and…
J: If I understand the idea, you’re trying to fulfill the notion of the Body of Christ—the Mystical Body of Christ. You’re trying to say that we are brothers and sisters together, and that this is the way in which we want to build a new world…
D: Well, we’re all creatures of body and soul—who knows what has happened to people when they get into this state: some of them are mental, some of them are alcoholics—some of them are just plain old. Relatives have put them out. Or else they’ve been offended by their…their…and just walk out…
J: They just have no place to go…
D: Yes—no place to go…
J: So they end up with you…
D: It’s…utterly useless work…No, it’s often been said that…feeding a soup line is like putting a band-aid on a cancer—the thing to do is to change society. But, meanwhile, what about every poor human being that’s hungry? It’s…needs a place to sleep…You have to think in terms of the present moment. You have to do things that come to hand—scripture directs you along those lines, most certainly…
J: What do you think about genocide?
D: Well, we’re living in an era of genocide. I mean, after the Holocaust…which led to the second world war…which went on…War itself is a holocaust. And, we’re still thinking in terms of war—the whole government…how much of our taxes go for war…a greater amount this year that ever before.
And, so we’re pacifist as well as anarchist…and…we do believe that there is…not only the genocide of war—the genocide that took place in the extermination of Jews—but, the whole program—I’m speaking now as a Catholic—of birth control and abortion, is another form of genocide.
There’s many theories about birth control, many theories about a population going to seed when they’re poverty stricken—a neglected orchard, for instance—it goes to seed…
J: Right…
D: …and, so, they claim the poor are bringing forth tremendous numbers of children, and the “solution” is to kill them off—the seed that is dead seed—by whatever methods they use: whether it’s intra-uterine devices, or the pill—about which they’re very dubious. But, I’m just saying that, when it comes to Mexicans, and Filipinos, and the Blacks in this country—they’re the ones who are multiplying. And, a great many of them believe that this is— the educated too—that the whole problem’s…the whole program of birth control and abortion, is a way of keeping down the population of the poor. It’s a…
J: What about…
D: …it’s a rigid point of view—and I think many Catholics would disagree with me, absolutely…
J: Yes…
D: I have only one child—so they say, “look at you: you can talk”…My daughter has nine. All together there are now…there will be eight great-grandchildren by spring.
J: Eight—
D: Yes—and I’m just telling you that…you look at them, and…which ones would you do without?
J: There are many people who have children whom they can’t really feed. I mean, the story about a loaf under every arm doesn’t always happen—I’ve seen it myself, in…especially poor countries, where people just do not have enough to feed…and those children die at a very early age. And, there’s an enormous amount of suffering on the part of the children and their parents…
D: I know, there’s suffering—there’s suffering with or without. I’m just saying, a country as wealthy as the United States—where the act is to pay farmers not to grow their crops…Iowa farmers, Dakota farmers, have said that they could raise enough food to feed the world—if they weren’t prevented from it by government policy. It’s absolutely an insane economy that we’re living under. And, so, we’re dedicated to a total social change—where there is enough to feed everybody.
[J: Dorothy Day is a traditional Catholic in her opposition to birth control and abortion, her obedience to Church doctrine, her devotion to the Sacraments, and her prayer life. But, her traditionalism, paradoxically, is the basis of her radical political views and actions. For her, participation in non-violent struggles for social change, performing direct works of mercy, and living in an anarchist, communal style are all based on the Christian ethic of love and the Mystical Body of Christ, in which Christians live through the Sacraments and prayer.]
J: Is there a certain kind of life of prayer that’s lived by people within the Catholic Worker movement?
D: Well, I don’t think its ever been healthier than it is right now. Down in the city—in New York—we…the whole community works together..I mean the community of young people who…the volunteers…well..quite a large…sometimes I lose count…Anyway, we all go to daily Communion, and we also say Vespers in the evening. And, when there’s an incipient riot around the place—there’s always violence…
J: Yes…
D: I’ve seen men on the line suddenly jump up and pull a knife out…and want to stab the man next to him…
J: Really?
D: …and, sometimes it’s racial, sometimes it’s just plain one drunk having a fight with another…But, there are very tense moments, and I…believe me, I think what we do is just stand there and pray. And, one person will quietly go and take the knife away…But…you have to more or less talk it over amongst yourselves…and say not everybody jump in on a situation—let one person handle it. So…But, we do a lot of praying—just from the standpoint of danger itself. You can’t live in the depths of the slums, the way we do, where there’s constant hold-ups…It’s against the law right now to have any longer those guards on the window, because some children were burnt to death because the firemen…
J: They couldn’t get at them…
D:…couldn’t get at them, yes. So, that, very often people on our block…they’re…they have…women have been suffered rape. There have been constant muggings, and so on…So, that there is this matter of fear…And—without quoting Roosevelt’s famous remark—I would say that…the Psalms…there’s a verse there which says, “Dear God, deliver me from the fear of my enemies.” Not from the enemies, but from the fear…from the fear of them. And, that…it’s a terrible thing for human beings to fear one another.
J: Does prayer ever help with that fear?
D: Well, I think it does..I think…
J: How does it do that?
D: Well, you say, “Dear God, deliver me from the fear of my enemies.” And…Jesus said, “ask, and you’ll receive”…I believe, literally, that you have to take these things literally. Knock, and it shall be opened to you…
J: The Catholic Worker’s really a fundamentalist movement in a way, isn’t it? I mean…
D: Well, you want to take…if you want to take scripture seriously. You read it, and take it seriously, and, well, it works.
J: Because, that stands behind the idea of direct help to people in need…
D:…And, St. Paul says if you sow…if you sow sparsely, you’ll reap sparsely, if you sow abundantly, you’ll reap abundantly. So, we just aim to give away everything we have. If somebody takes your coat you give him your cloak too. Sometimes it sounds idiotic, doesn’t it? But…
J: Paul also said to be a fool in Christ…
D: No, I…Jesus Himself said that.
J: Yes…
D: Yes, to be a fool for Christ. Christ is very often pictured as a fool—by the painter Roualt, for instance…
J: Yes…But, the people in the Catholic Worker accept voluntary poverty. Is that sort of a necessary part…or an important part of the development of the new communities that you see today?
D: Well, we can’t ask anybody else to help unless we first do all we can ourselves…It’s…Immediate action means you go ahead and you accept that thing…imposed upon or taken advantage of…and, literally, if anybody takes your coat, you might as well go ahead and say, “Do you need some shoes, too?” And, so on…It’s…You can do it literally. You always get back what you need…
J: How do you understand anarchism? How does it…what’s the idea of the Catholic Worker concerning anarchism?
D: Well, we are very much interested in anarchistic thought, because a man like Peter Kropotkin wrote a book called Fields, Factories, and Workshops. And, he believed that all reform should begin from the bottom up, rather than from the top down. And, living, as we are, in a totalitarian era…of Hitlers, Mussolinis, and Stalins…why…the whole philosophy of that part of the labor movement interested me.
The Amalgamated Clothing Workers, the International Ladies Garment Workers: both had cooperative housing for the poor…I think…I don’t know how many generations have lived in those houses. They’re still going down the Eastside, up in the Bronx…they have their clinics—just like César Chávez has forty acres, and a village for the retired Filipinos, and a cooperative service station…The thing is, he also was interested in this type of building…it’s very much a part of the labor movement, where, they, through their organization, and through their …their dedication to bettering conditions begin right where they are. And, in France they would call it a “personalist” position…
J: That’s another important word from the Catholic Worker…
D: Yes, well…at the same time the Catholic Worker started, a magazine started in Paris called the…called Esprit: “the spirit.” And, it was dedicated to the personalist and communitarian revolution. And, it has to begin with the personalist, and you begin with yourself, and you begin as an activist—changing yourself, and…
Around the Catholic Worker, they say, “How is the Catholic Worker run?” Well, a person has authority because…not because he’s been put in a position of authority…Everybody’s a volunteer. But, the person who…just by his very ability, takes over a situation, and is…is the “authority,” you might say: he’s an authority on what he’s doing. The person who knows how to bake bread automatically becomes the head of a baking project.
J: What happens when conflicts arise, and when someone says, “I can make bread better than you”?
D: Well, if there’s going to be a conflict, they can go ahead and take two separate tables and…to make their own bread—take turns on the ovens…Well, we happen to have two ovens too. No, there’s the right to secession. That reminds you of the Quakers: I went up to speak at a place in Westchester, and there were two Quaker meeting houses, not very far apart. And, I said, well…what is this—is this a hall, or something of that sort? And, they said, “No, there was a disagreement between the two groups, and, so, they seceded and built another meeting house.” So, in an anarchist group, if there’s a difference of opinion, why, the group is split.
[J: The Catholic Worker farm in upstate New York, lives out the movement's anarchist and agrarian principles. Today, it attracts many young people who are seeking a religious, rural, and revolutionary lifestyle: a style which Dorothy Day---and the Catholic Worker---has been living for over forty years. Dorothy Day views this farm---and others like it around the country---as a new revolutionary development growing out of the Peace Movement. To many people, Dorothy Day is the leading example of how religious and non-violent revolutionary life are related, and, as such, she is one of the leading religious teachers and symbols of our time.]
D: The Catholic Worker is essentially a school, you might say. I mean, it’s a place where you…where you…a lot of young people come to us…it’s a pacifist, anarchist movement. And, they come to us to learn more about this point of view of beginning a change from the bottom up, rather than from the top down—through unions, and credit unions. You do away with banks by credit unions…you do away with interest, you do away with…by mutual aid. You do away with…possession of goods by sharing. Unions, credit unions, farming communes, cooperatives—all of these things…
J: This is all a way of…
D: …are part of…are part of the anarchist point of view—a non-violent, anarchist point of view, that you find in a good deal of the anarchist…European anarchist literature.
J: Could you tell us something about how the Catholic Workers—and people within it—approach the…constitute dying and death?
D: It’s a matter of the Creed: we believe in life everlasting, and…resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. We can’t conceive of ourselves as not being…being ourselves. And, I think that…one preacher, I heard say one time: it’s a transport. It’s…and, that word usually means an ecstasy. So…that you look upon death as…as an advance. As…you can take it form a supernatural point of view—we know nothing about it, really.
J: Right…
D: But, it does seem to me that the promises are there: to have life, and to have it more abundantly. But, meanwhile, we’re in a school: we’ve got a lot to learn—a lot to do…
Dorothy Day interviews on You Tube
Empire: through a glass, darkly
(photo: Cornell University Library; photographer unknown)
(revision:1/09)
